184: Grow Your Influence Through Executive Presence with Greg Owen-Boger
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Influential leaders tend to possess something called executive presence. It can seem like an elusive sort of charisma that is near-impossible to emulate, but it has been broken down by Susan Bates into three dimensions and fifteen aspects. On this episode of The TalentGrow Show, leadership coach, author, and speaker Greg Owen-Boger of Turpin Communication joins me to discuss how leaders can leverage Bates’ framework to cultivate their own executive presence and grow their influence. Listen to demystify executive presence by learning about the dimensions and aspects that comprise it and discover the steps you can take to develop it in yourself. Greg also shares many concrete examples from his own career to help you grasp executive presence and its applications. Tune in and don’t forget to share this episode with others!
ABOUT GREG OWEN-BOGER
Greg Owen-Boger is the VP of Turpin Communication, a presentation and facilitation training company in Chicago, where he serves as instructor and executive coach. 2020 marks his 25th year with the company. Greg was the 2015 president of the Association for Talent Development, Chicagoland Chapter. He is a frequent blogger, speaker, and the co-author of two books, “The Orderly Conversation” and “Effective SMEs.” He holds the Bates ExPI Executive Presence coaching certification. In his spare time, Greg serves as the Executive Director of Turpin Cares, the company’s philanthropic arm, which supports the homeless population in and around his Chicago neighborhood.
WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:
· What is executive presence? Greg describes how Susan Bates’ book unlocked its meaning for him (5:16)
· Three dimensions that make up executive presence: character, substance and style (8:29)
· Greg uses the story of his first meeting with Halelly as an example when explaining the different facets of executive presence (10:20)
· Taking another example from his own career, Greg describes how assertiveness can be either an asset or a problem based on the context of the work (11:36)
· Halelly makes a connection between the facets of executive presence and the facets of Emotional Intelligence (EQ) (12:41)
· Is the first dimension of executive presence, character, something we can actively work on? How ingrained is our character? (13:12)
· Self-awareness is the first step to change. How does Greg help others develop their self-awareness? (15:20)
· Aspects that fall under the second dimension, substance (16:54)
· Greg shares his own success-story with executive presence, and how he realized and overcame his lack of restraint (17:52)
· Halelly emphasizes the value of vulnerability and transparency (19:56)
· Halelly shares a story about how your intentions and other people’s perceptions are not always the same (21:41)
· Greg briefly discusses the dimension of appearance in executive presence, and shares another example (23:24)
· Balancing individuality and professionalism in your organization’s appearance (24:50)
· What’s new and exciting on Greg’s horizon? (28:27)
· One specific action you can take to ratchet up your own executive presence (29:45)
RESOURCES:
· Get the book that pioneered the framework Greg talks about, All The Leader You Can Be: The Science of Achieving Extraordinary Executive Presence by Susan Bates
· Check out Turpin Communication’s website
· Connect with Greg on LinkedIn
· Read this article from Greg
Episode 184 Greg Owen Boger
TEASER CLIP: One’s presence is perceived over time. It’s one thing for a stranger to walk into a boardroom and you look up and go, “Oh, that person has executive presence.” But they have to exhibit the behaviors that support their physical appearance over time, and I think that’s really important. You don’t just fix your presence overnight. It’s an ongoing process. But you also mentioned self-awareness, and I think that is absolutely critical. You can’t know how to flex on any one of these facets until you’re actually aware of how people are perceiving you.
Intro Welcome to the TalentGrow Show, where you can get actionable results-oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership, communication and people skills to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow. And now, your host and leadership development strategist, Halelly Azulay.
Hey there TalentGrowers. Welcome back to another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist here at TalentGrow, the consulting company that I started in 2006 to develop leaders that people want to follow. And TalentGrow, my company, sponsors this show so that it stays free for you every Tuesday. Now, I have a guest today who will talk to you about executive presence. Greg Owen Boger is his name, and we discuss what are the components or facets of executive presence, because it seems like a very fuzzy kind of term, and we try to break it down to super concrete and actionable examples that you can use, plus of course an actionable tip at the end that we co-created to help you move forward to improve your own executive presence. I hope that you enjoy this one, I always want to know what you thought about it afterwards and without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Greg Owen Boger.
Let’s get it started. TalentGrowers, I’m happy to bring my colleague and friend onto the show, Greg Owen Boger. He’s Vice President of Turpin Communication, a business communication training company in Chicago. Over the years, he has coached countless employees and leaders to be more effective presenters, facilitators and trainers. Greg was also the 2015 president of ATD Chicago chapter. ATD is the Association for Talent Development and that is the context in which he and I met. Both of us were leaders in our chapters. He is a frequent blogger, popular speaker and co-author of two books, The Orderly Conversation, business presentations redefined, and Effective SMEs, a trainer’s guide for helping subject matter experts facilitate learning. He is among many thought leaders who contributed to the book Master Presenter, lessons from the world’s top experts on becoming a more influential speaker. Greg, welcome to the TalentGrow Show.
Thanks for having me Halelly.
I’m really glad that you are here and I’m looking forward to our conversation today which will focus on the topic of executive presence. Before we do, I always ask my guests to give us a brief overview of their professional journey. Where did you start and how did you get to where you are today?
It’s an unusual path that I took. First of all, I started out as an actor in my early days and I spent a lot of time traveling mostly North America, or most of North America, touring in musicals. I realized after I got into my mid-20s that that was just not the lifelong journey that I wanted to take. I needed something else. So I went on vacation in Chicago and I was staying with a friend and I said, “You know, I think I need to get out of the theater, but I am completely unqualified to do anything.” That was 1995, and if you think about what was happening in 1995, there was this thing called Windows 95 and it had a mouse, and I had no idea how to use it. I wasn’t even qualified to do basic computer work! But this friend said, “You know, I have this other friend who just started a communication training company and I think the two of you might hit it off, so let me introduce you and we’ll see where that goes.” So I met Turpin Communications founder Dale Ludwig and he gave me a job running camera for one of his presentation training classes and it didn’t take too long for me to figure out that I’d found my new career. So here we are 25 years later and I am partial owner of Turpin Communication now.
That’s fabulous. I really like that story. I enjoy hearing about people’s meandering career paths and obviously you’re very good at what you do, so I’m glad you were able to find it just so quickly with that first trial.
I was very lucky, very lucky.
It is lucky. Or opportunity knocks when you’re open to it.
That’s right.
As I mentioned in the bio, you obviously work a lot with people on communication skills, which I’ve been aware of, knowing you and knowing your focus and being connected online and seeing the work that you’ve been doing, and focused very much on conversations and presentations, but lately I know that you have become interested in focusing people on their executive presence. That’s something that keeps coming up in a lot of your work. It comes up a lot in my work with leaders. And sometimes it seems like an elusive thing, like it’s almost like you know it when you see it but it seems kind of murky. What is executive presence exactly?
Well, exactly like you just described, it is so elusive, yet you know it the instant you see it. Maybe we should back up just a smidge and talk about how executive presence became a thing for us. Turpin Communication has very much evolved over the years, based on client requests. For many years, in our leadership development programs or the leadership communication aspects, often our buyers would say, “We want to work on our executive’s presence,” and we’re like, “Okay, but what exactly does that mean?” If I can’t name it and describe it, how can I possibly coach for it? It became this thing where I was on a mission. I needed to figure this out. And so I started thinking about is it charisma, is it gravitas, is it owning a room? All of these attributes that we were thinking executive presence was all sort of rolled up into physical appearance. While that clearly is an important piece of leadership, it certainly can’t be all of it. I went on a mission to research as much as I could, and eventually I finally landed on this book called All the Leader You Can Be, the science of achieving extraordinary executive presence, and it’s written by Suzanne Bates. The instant I picked it up I went ding, ding, ding! This is it. She has been able to, through scientific research, identify 15 facets that fall into three dimensions of attributes that are all observable behaviors when people are communicating. So it fit very nicely. Talk about opportunity knocking. As I was devouring this book the first time and then a second time, it really became very clear that we needed to become certified in Suzanne Bates’ methodology so that we could wrap this notion of executive presence into the leadership communication work that we’ve been doing. All the writing and talking about executive presence that I’ve been doing, that I guess sparked your interest, and brings me onto the show today.
And it’s really good, as you said, to have observable, measurable skills or competencies or behaviors, because otherwise just saying, “Oh, we know it when we see it,” or having things that are kind of elusive, but how can you possibly change behavior? How can you guide someone to grow this? I know that some people almost think you’ve either got it or you don’t. Which of course is ridiculous. Maybe some people are lucky that they’re born with a greater proclivity toward it or it comes more naturally or easily to them, but any person can learn to become more comfortable with and more adept at exhibiting these kinds of behaviors, based on being aware of what they are, understanding where they stand and the knowing what they need to change, right?
Exactly right.
So three dimensions you say she has in her framework that kind of encapsulate all of the executive presence behaviors, and they are character, substance and style. Obviously there’s a lot more and we’ll link to the book in our show notes and to your programs, but give us a brief overview of what these are?
I think we need to understand that executive presence is all about are your intentions as a leader matching up to others’ perceptions of you? Do those things match? In order to understand that, you have to grow your self-awareness around these three dimensions, the character, substance and style. So character is about how you develop who you are over time from childhood. These things are foundational and they are built into who we are. Some of the facets of character are authenticity and integrity. You can start to see that those are attributes that you develop at a very young age, and we can thank our parents and the communities we grow up in for helping us develop those. In the substance side, these are all about situational behaviors and building business acumen, which are honed and developed through your experiences. So some examples of substance would be practical wisdom and vision. Vision is not just about visionary, it’s about being able to communicate that vision so that you inspire your team members to take whatever action is called for. That’s character, then substance, and the third one is style. We mentioned appearance earlier, and appearance is one of the elements of style, but it is only one. Some of the others are inclusiveness and assertiveness. So inclusiveness is are you inviting the right people to the table and are you valuing equally everybody’s opinion. I love that Suzanne calls these things facets, because it’s like a beautifully cut gem that the different facets are going to show up in different ways, and I think that’s really fascinating.
Say more.
About these showing up in different ways? We’ve known each other for a while, and I was drawn to you immediately because you were interested, you were interesting, there was just a lot of stuff that you and I seemed to have in common in that very first dinner conversation that we had. I would hope that you had a similar reaction to me, but you and I are nothing alike. So your facets shine in one certain way and mine shine in a different way and that’s how everybody can create their own stamp of their own leadership style. When we talk about coaching someone on their executive presence, the goal isn’t to make everybody a cookie cutter. It’s to make sure that everybody is showing up in a way that makes sense for them, and in the context of which they work.
In their industry and the organization, obviously that’s going to be really important how one shows up in one industry or one organization might be completely inappropriate in another. I’m thinking in a military organization versus let’s say a startup in Silicon Valley, your presence needs to be super different.
Absolutely. Part of our working with the Bates Organization and getting certified in their content was we had to go through a 360 assessment and be coached on our own executive presence. I was rated by my direct reports, my peers and some of our colleagues as being extremely high in assertiveness, which if you are too assertive, it becomes sort of a negative underbelly of that. While I was glad that people rated me high on assertiveness, I was concerned about that, so I asked my coach about it. He said, “Let’s put this in the context of the business that you do, the work that you do. Does it require a certain level of assertiveness?” The answer to that is yes, it does. So he said, “Within the context of your work, we need to look at that assertiveness as being a plus.” Now, in my work with the local ATD chapter as president, I needed to be assertive, but in that situation because I was working with volunteers, it’s very likely that my assertiveness could become a really big problem.
A lot of these, you’re describing them, they really remind me of facets of the emotional intelligence assessment, EQI, they appear there. It’s so funny how everything is always kind of connected in the end. You know how communicate and your intentions versus how you’re perceived. It’s all in that bridge between humans.
It really is.
That’s where I know we both work in that arena and it’s so not obvious how to do it right. It’s so tricky. For example, when you were talking about character, I kept thinking to myself – you were saying and I agree – that we build that from birth, from our upbringing, our socialization and how our parents raise us, our community, all of those things have a major impact plus our personality. If we’re trying to help people increase their executive presence and one of three aspects is character, even like you said integrity, how do you change that or how do you grow that later in life?
Let’s take integrity as an example. It’s kind of an easy one to get your arms around. We all know what it means to have integrity, but sometimes we don’t act with integrity. An easy way to think about this is do you do what you say you’re going to do? And a lot of people will agree to something in a meeting and then for whatever reason, it doesn’t get done. Maybe they forget, maybe other priorities take place, maybe they simply just dig in and don’t want to do it. But over time, that chips away at how people perceive you and their willingness to want to work with you. That’s really what executive presence is, and I know you know a thing or two about this concept that you want to be the person that other people want to work with. So when it comes to integrity, that means one of the ways you show that is by doing what you say you’re going to do.
Just making sure you understand clearly how to demonstrate it and then being extra aware of whether your behaviors are indeed demonstrating what you want to demonstrate, that you’re more conscious, maybe, and explicit about behaving in the right way or avoiding behaviors that can give the wrong impression.
Right. Because once you start to dig into these 15 facets, it really does become clear how these things show up or not during everyday work. The other thing that’s really important to understand is that one’s presence is perceived over time. It’s one thing for a stranger to walk into a boardroom and you look up and go, “Oh, that person has executive presence.” But they have to exhibit the behaviors that support their physical appearance over time, and I think that’s really important. You don’t just fix your presence overnight. It’s an ongoing process. But you also mentioned self-awareness, and I think that is absolutely critical. You can’t know how to flex on any one of these facets until you’re actually aware of how people are perceiving you.
it’s so true. Self-awareness is the first step to change. So how do you help people increase their self-awareness?
In our workshops, we actually do it in several different ways. We always have people do an online assessment, so that we understand what are they thinking coming into the work we’re about to do? What are their perceived strengths, weaknesses, that sort of thing. You can’t really start coaching somebody until you know what their baseline is and what they are thinking. They may be absolutely right, spot on, and they might be terribly, terribly wrong. Regardless, you have to start with what are their beliefs?
About themselves? Self reported?
About themselves. That’s right. And then also, in our workshops, we always video record people, giving a real life presentation or running a real life meeting or a real life training situation. The video camera doesn’t lie. People don't always like what they see, and part of our jobs as coaches is to help steer them in the right direction so they focus on the things they can change, but when someone sees that, for example, they’re just not making very good eye contact, what’s the perception of that? The perception is that they’re nervous, not feeling comfortable, experiencing some anxiety, not being truthful or genuine. You can start to see how the video camera can capture a lot of your presence.
The nonverbal behaviors for sure.
For sure.
And then substance, tell me some of the other things that fall under substance?
We’ve got practical wisdom, confidence, composure, resonance and vision. Resonance is the one I like to talk about with substance. You think about the term resonance. What in the world does that mean?
I don’t know!
Exactly. But the way Suzanne and her colleagues define it, it’s are you able to communicate in a way that resonates with others? So, think of someone who is very data-heavy in their work. Maybe someone who works in IT or health care or insurance, something like that, so their brains are just full of technical data. They often have a hard time communicating these complex concepts to people with a lower state of understanding because they just don’t know how to – I’m going to use the term dumb it down and I don’t really mean it, but –
Simplify.
They don’t know how to simplify it. They might score low in resonance because people just simply don’t understand.
Like I can’t connect with you.
Exactly.
That clears it up a little bit. I’d love to hear a favorite success story, change story, that you’ve seen.
I’ll talk about myself, because this was startling to me. As I said, we had to do the 360 assessment and then be coached and the thing that I was rated lowest on by my peers and clients and my direct reports was restraint. Restraint is in the character dimension, which is from childhood. Restraint is defined as are you able to remain solid during meetings? Are you relying on knee-jerk reactions? Are you shutting people down because the decision is made and move on? I was rated lowest on that and that was startling to me, because that is certainly not how I want to come across. But as my coach was working with me, he said, “I get the sense that you are a very fast thinker and maybe a little bit impatient.” I said, “I’m a yes and a lot impatient.” And he said, “I think what’s coming through here is that you’re not allowing people the time or the space to think about ideas. You think a decision is made and you’re ready to move on and so this impatience is actually coming through as a lack of restraint. That was absolutely eye opening for me. And I’ve been working really hard on slowing things down, giving people the time and the space to think through things, rather than me just spouting my opinion and moving on.
I love to concretize stuff. So if you could possibly break it down so that if we could see the process you’re going through to help yourself do that, what are you doing?
It is just about awareness. I am aware now that that is an issue for me, so I have to put myself in check all the time. And because we have a very open relationship among everyone who works with us, I’ve actually said to them, “This is one of the things I’m working on and I invite you to call me out on it if you feel like I’m being too assertive, too moving forward, because I really want to work on my restraint and give all of you the opportunity to be part of these conversations.”
TalentGrowers, this is something we’ve talked about in other episodes of the show and it’s so key. I’m glad you brought that up, Greg. The idea that if you can be transparent and vulnerable enough as a leader to tell people, “Hey, I’m working on changing this about myself and it’s hard. Here’s what I’m doing. Here’s how you can help me. Please give me feedback.” Not only are you more likely to improve, you actually achieve your development goals because you’re more likely to have people give you support and give you feedback, which is one of the best ways people can learn, but it also demonstrates. It’s like a role modeling that says, “We’re not perfect around here. We’re all a work in progress. I am working on changing things and when I give you feedback and work with you on changing things, it’s because we all do that. It’s not just like, “I’m perfect and here’s what you need to do to change your crappy self.” It’s something that is just part of how we work, and by you doing that, it’s like you’re going first in that kind of uncomfortable but important place of being outside your comfort zone and being transparent about it.
Yes to all of that.
Well, I think that’s really helpful. Any other kind of insights about developing self-awareness? You said that you got feedback from your peers and it was like a 360 – is that part of the work you’re doing also when you help people develop their executive presence?
It can be. We recommend it, because there’s nothing quite as eye opening as getting the feedback from 360 degrees around you. Clients aren’t always able to find the resources for that, but we do recommend it.
Sometimes it’s true that you can just have your own awareness raised and then look for signs. I have a story I like to tell, I talked about it in one of my other – I think it was in a podcast episode and I definitely made a video about it – about how this woman, I was her manager, I was listening to her speak about something she was proposing and then she stopped kind of in the middle and said to me, “You’re always judging me,” and I was like, “What?” Then she was touching her brow and made this sort of scrunching, furrowed look, and she said, “You’re always judging me,” and she made this look. She was referring to a look that I was giving her, probably at that very moment, and she was reading it as me thinking she was stupid or what she was saying was dumb. I’m sure I’ve had that look because I was not very good at masking that. But at that moment, in fact, it was not what I was thinking. I was really just sort of concentrating on understanding her. It was my, “I’m listening intently” look and she misunderstood it. So this is back to what you were saying, Greg, about how your intentions and other people’s perceptions are not necessarily the same. How it lands with the other person is the only part that actually matters in the whole thing because that’s the impact! So it was painful, but she gave me feedback that was so helpful to me because I just wasn’t as aware and from there on I had to be much more aware of my facial expressions as I was listening to her and to others. There’s been so many other opportunities like that over my career. Getting input from others is helpful. So, anything else that you’d like to share that you think is really key about executive presence that we haven’t talked about?
Oh, if we had time I could talk all day about this. I’m having a hard time!
We don’t have all day. Any other golden nuggets?
Let’s talk about appearance. We can’t skate around that right? It is one of the 15 facets and so what is it about appearance? The way Suzanne Bates and her colleagues talk about it is are you showing respect to others through how you show up? In other words, are you dressed appropriately for the situation you’re in? Being in a bathing suit is an appropriate thing to be wearing in a certain situation. A suit and tie is another appropriate thing to be wearing in a certain situation. Also, one of our clients that had a dress code that said, “All men will be in suits and ties and all women will be in something equivalent.” What would happen, especially the younger people, they would have two or three suits that they would rotate every single day, and by the end of the month they’re a rumpled mess. So the dress code that had been imposed upon them had a certain intent and because they weren’t showing up in pressed clothing and had been to the dry cleaners, it wasn’t having the desired effect. It’s not enough to put on the suit – you have to look the part.
Another piece of it is showing up rested. I’m sure you’ve seen leaders who look like they’ve been on a cross-Atlantic flight and they just don’t show up refreshed. Showing up well-groomed and looking like there’s some vitality there is important.
I’m going to bring up something and it might take us down a rabbit hole and we’ll see if we can’t close it up, we might leave it. But, you know the workplace is changing so much. I remember when – this is where I sound like an old lady when I say that sentence!
Back in the day!
When I came out of college, my friend got a job at Arthur Anderson Consulting, which no longer exists but it’s one of those big consulting firms, and it was so conservative back then that their dress code was that she had to wear, she may not wear pants, she had to wear a skirt that went below her knee, she was only allowed to wear dark blue suits, she had to wear pantyhose, she had to have a certain height of heel, she had to wear a woman tie. It was just so absolutely ridiculous that I’m so gratified and thankful that the world has moved a great deal of distance from that. However, there is also now almost like a wild west in terms of appearance and standards and I know organizations are really struggling with that. You want to allow for individuality, you want to allow for diversity, you want to allow for self expression, you want to allow for progress. You still want, as a leader, if you want to have executive presence, I think it’s become really hard to know what to do anymore. We have piercings and tattoos and wigs and braids and length of skirt and gosh! What do you do with that?
I would say let’s think about the brand. The organization’s brand, your individual brand, and are they working together? I think an organization’s brand is one thing and it’s tarnished if the people working there, particularly if they’re externally facing and leadership is externally facing, if they look incongruous with the organization’s brand, I think you’ve got a problem there. We talk about personal branding all the time and in fact, in every single engagement that we have, one of the very first questions we ask people to answer is, “How do you want to be perceived?” People inevitably will say professional, articulate, knowledgeable, the person people want to work with – those sorts of things. In the coaching, if they seem themselves on video and they have a sloppy that is incongruous with the brand, there’s your answer right there. But it definitely changes over time and I do wonder. You brought up tattoos and piercings. I wonder what that’s going to look like in the future.
It used to be completely taboo and it’s definitely not taboo and we have an entire generation that has them all over everywhere, so unless you’re going to exclude them all – them all is a huge generalization – but a large swatch of the population would be excluded from the professional workforce if we kept the rules the same way.
Yes, so we talked earlier about what is the context of the work you’re trying to accomplish? One of our clients is a clothing design firm and manufacturing company, and their designers are very much tattooed and very much pierced and that’s exactly who they are and exactly what the company wants them to be. So it’s all about the context.
So maybe companies are shifting over time, based on demand of the market and employees, so when you’re working for a company, the current brand is the one you have to work with and be congruent with, but you may become an agent of change if you feel there’s room for progress and that becomes a different story.
Yes.
Cool. Thanks for going with me there, and before you share one specific action with our listeners, I always ask my guest also, what’s new and exciting on your horizon these days Greg?
Well, executive presence was the bright, shiny object for a while and it will continue to be, but we have another one that we’re noodling on. I’m sure you’ve had lots of conversations about this, but it’s soft skills.
Oh yeah.
I know there’s a lot of discussion around “I hate the term soft skills” and I’m less interested in that and way more interested in how does the workforce of the future, what does that look like in terms of our soft skills? Every bit of research you read or hear about where the executives are talking, they’re saying soft skills are a really big issue. The ability to communicate, the ability to work in a team and all of those soft skills out there. Communication is always one of the top elements that they talk about. So what we’ve been talking about in our office is, how do we help the workforce develop their soft skills as a competitive advantage in the workplace? Clearly we have worked with communication very well over the years, but we’re starting to think maybe we should expand that into other soft skills as well. Anyway, that’s what we’ve been noodling on.
Good. Well, keep me posted on where you end up with that. Before we close out, what’s one specific action that TalentGrowers can take today, tomorrow, this week, to help them ratchet up their own executive presence?
I’ve been thinking a lot about this question because I knew you were going to ask me, and my answer, I’m afraid, may not be very satisfying. It’s not as actionable as I know you want it to be, but it’s really about paying attention to how others react to you. And growing your self-awareness. Think about these 15 facets and am I being inclusive right now? Am I at a certain level, the right level, of assertiveness, humility, whatever facet you want to think about. Really noodle on that over the day, the week, a month, whatever, and think about are there ways that I could flex to dial this up or dial it down?
TalentGrowers, we’ll link to an article that has all 15 facets. Greg describes them in that, so that will help you out. So, kind of ratchet up your own self-awareness and become a detective of your own facets of executive presence, specifically whichever one you think you should focus on the most.
The ultimate goal is to be the person that other people want to be with, want to work with.
I’ll take you one further, then. I’d say once you’ve decided which one that is, and in addition to observing yourself, ask somebody or multiple other people that you trust to have your best interests at heart and to be able to give you objective and honest feedback and ask them how you come across in that aspect, and for them to also start watching you and giving you feedback. How is that?
That’s a great idea.
That will take it even a step further. Greg, thank you so much for stopping by the TalentGrow Show. I know people will want to learn more about you and from you, so what’s the best place for people to follow you online, on social media, where should they reach out?
Sure. Our website for sure, TurpinCommunication.com, and then also you can look me up on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active there.
Very cool. We’ll link to that in the show notes. Thank you for your time today.
Thank you Halelly. It was a great time.
Outro… And that’s it for another episode TalentGrowers. I’m so glad you’ve stuck around here to the end of the podcast club as former guest David Burkus called it, and I hope that you enjoyed and got value from today’s episode and that you will let me know what value you did get and what you’ve learned and what you’ve applied and what you thought. I also want to know what you’d like to hear about in future episodes of the TalentGrow Show. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe on whatever your favorite podcast listening software is, like an Apple Podcast or Stitcher or wherever it is you listen, that would be great. Also give us a review, a rating and a review is always very appreciated. I read every single one of them and that helps other people assess whether they should give the podcast a try if they find it along their searches. So your words help resonate with others and give them the courage and the curiosity to check out the TalentGrow Show. I thank you in advance for taking a couple of minutes out of your day to do that. It means so much, thank you.
That’s it for another episode of the TalentGrow Show. I’m Halelly Azulay, your leadership development strategist at TalentGrow, and until the next time, make today great.
Thanks for listening to the TalentGrow Show, where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow. For more information, visit TalentGrow.com.
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Intro/outro music: "Why-Y" by Esta
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